Zack Sabre Jr. and Taichi discuss their tag team competition further
As Dangerous Tekkers continue to do battle with Hirooki Goto and YOSHI-HASHI through the Summer Struggle tour, they count down to a September 5 championship defence, and the desire to truly cement themselves as the world’s best tag team wrestlers. In part two of our conversation, the champions discuss the upcoming three way defence, and what’s happening with tag team wrestling all over the world.
Watch Wrestle Grand Slam LIVE in English September 4 & 5 on NJPW World!
That was just inspirational, a yokozuna going that hard
–Before you two faced Tetsuya Naito and SANADA for the IWGP Tag Team Championships at the Tokyo Dome on July 25, you both had to face them in singles bouts back to back in Osaka. Taichi, how was that experience for you?
Taichi: Man, as soon as I saw those cards come out I thought ‘gimme a break!’
–It was definitely a demanding few days.
Taichi: But even though we’re a tag team we aren’t exclusive tag wrestlers. This was a good chance for us to show that we can bring it as singles wrestlers as well, and that’s what I chose to focus on.
–You beat Naito on the first night with Black Mephisto. Those elbow exchanges toward the end of the match were definitely memorable.
Taichi: Heheh. That was a Hakuho tribute. Did you see the sumo in Nagoya?
–Ah, yes. July 18 in Nagoya, Sho Hakuho had a memorable bout with Haruo Terunofuji. There was a wild strike exchange in that match.
Taichi: That was just inspirational, yokozuna going that hard. There was buzz and a lot of retirement talk with Hakuho, and he just went out there, no f***s given, and gave it hell. I saw that and was just ‘yes! That’s what I need’.
–That kind of fight style is pretty controversial in the sumo world. It sparked debate, but you took it as a positive.
Taichi: Eh, I guess I can see the argument that a yokozuna should carry themselves with a certain level of grace, but I think being able to cast that aside, and fight with your heart on your sleeve, pure pride, that’s important I think. That’s what motivated me against Naito.
–Zack, do you watch sumo at all?
ZSJ: Usually Taichi just keeps me up to date…
–Before Taichi beat Naito, you wrestled SANADA to a unique double pin draw.
ZSJ: I think maybe the first time in NJPW, right? I guess in some way it was inevitable, even though I never thought about it. SANADA and I always are so competitive when it comes to pinning one another. It’s a rare and unique relationship that we have and it turned into something very unique in the match.
–You were arguing about the result all the way to the back.
ZSJ: I still don’t believe it was a double fall. I think if you look very closely you can see my shoulder was up. I asked NJPW to fire all the referees and replace them with robots, but…
I always have a complicated experience with Naito
–Taichi, unfortunately you lost to SANADA in your singles match after an O’ Connor Roll. You two both have been vocal about hatred for Naito, but you both seem fond of SANADA.
Taichi: I like Sana, I do. We weren’t there at the same time, but we both came through the same All Japan dojo system. He’s like a cute kid brother.
–SANADA came into All Japan after you had already left. But he agrees with your ‘kid brother’ remark and talks about you in a similar way.
Taichi: Aww, bless his heart. But I’ve known him for a long time, since he was a newcomer to AJPW. Crazy story, but it was after I left there, I went to a sauna with the old ring announcer, Tiger Kihara. We were in there too long, he was an old man, and he collapsed. So I called the AJPW Dojo, and who would they send to pick him up but Sana? So that’s when I first met him.
–Zack, you lost to Naito that night.
ZSJ: I always have a complicated experience with Naito. When I beat Naito I always feel it’s so easy, no effort, but when he beats me, it’s difficult from the very beginning.
–In the end, Naito and SANADA won the singles contests 2-1-1, but they were all memorable bouts.
ZSJ: Ultimately, like Taichi said, our tag team works because we are essentially singles wrestlers. The two singles matches were obviously very important, but before I came into New Japan I would often have two singles matches in one weekend on the independents, I’ve been in this situation before, but this time it was a different scenario because the Tokyo Dome was in the back of my mind. And I had the loss in Sapporo in the back of my mind, too. So it was challenging to head into these matches for me.
–We talked about how you felt a sense of responsibility for losing the titles in Sapporo.
ZSJ: Usually if you have a Tokyo Dome match you’re only ever thinking about the Tokyo Dome, but here the Dome was almost an afterthought because of these singles matches. It all worked out fine though.
–It did indeed, as you reclaimed the tag titles, but all in all, how do you view that four day span?
Taichi: I was- what do you say Zack- knackered! I’m not like Tanahashi, I get tired, y’know.
ZSJ: For a time I thought we had the hardest schedule, but then Tanahashi had the two main events in Nagoya and Tokyo Dome, so we couldn’t say we had it hardest!
Okada’s never been a tag champion…
–One thing many picked up on in your match with SANADA was you bringing an All Japan flavour to a New Japan ring.
Taichi: I don’t know what ‘All Japan flavour’ is supposed to mean. That isn’t my intent at all, but I guess when I get in there with Sana, our roots show. It isn’t about who the biggest All Japan fan is. Anyway, Sana’s All Japan was Keiji Muto’s All Japan, it’s a different story.
–You were in AJPW before Keiji Muto became its president, unlike SANADA. You had said that if you were successful against Naito and SANADA in Sapporo, you would have had Toshiaki Kawada and Akira Taue challenge in the Tokyo Dome.
Taichi: Well, when I was a fan, the tag division was all about the Holy Demon Army, and Misawa and Kawada. Terry Gordy and Steve Williams as well.
–You’d also floated Hiroshi Tanahashi and Kazuchika Okada as potential challengers.
Taichi: Well, if we’re having contenders like Naito and SANADA in the mix, then Okada and Tanahashi wouldn’t be out of the ordinary. And after I mentioned it, Okada brought it up in his backstage comments.
–You’re right, after he beat Jeff Cobb in the Tokyo Dome.
Taichi: He’s never been a tag champion, and I bet he’s thinking about it, right? But him with YOSHI-HASHI would be no good. It would have to be him and Tanahashi, or Ibushi.
–That would definitely be a huge main event worthy match.
ZSJ: I think (the tag titles) can be in the main event. I think it’s about changing the narrative around the title. It began with Ibushi and Tanahashi winning the titles before the pandemic; that’s what made the titles appealing to us. We were watching our monitors, and saw Tanahashi and Ibushi win. We instantly called our shot then.
–That was in February of 2020. The eventual match was affected by the pandemic and didn’t happen until July, but you won the titles, and kept them until Wrestle Kingdom.
Taichi: We slipped after that. I wasn’t expecting G.o.D to take the titles from us. We’d brought eyes to the titles and then it went back to that exclusively tag team scenario.
The two baldies? I’m sure we’ll tangle if they come close, and that’s interesting
–To go quite a ways back to last August in Jingu Stadium when you retained the titles against Tanahashi and Ibushi, you talked about having a plan going forward. There are still fans that bring it up.
Taichi: Heheh. Some day you’ll see something happen that’ll make you go ‘so that’s what the plan was!’ It might be a while, but you can look forward to it.
ZSJ: Right. It might be more of a five year plan…
–Recently, NJPW STRONG had its own tag team tournament. Karl Anderson and Doc Gallows won the tournament in their return to NJPW. They’ve held the IWGP tag titles three times in the past; do you think they might be in your futures?
Taichi: Oh, the baldies? I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t intrigued, at least. I’ve known Anderson a long time, I know he came through the NJPW Dojo system, and he made the G1 finals before. He’s a good singles wrestler and he’s done a lot tagging as well.
–Before teaming with Gallows, he and Giant Bernard held the tag titles for a V10 reign, the most successful in history.
Taichi: And they’ve done a lot over in the States, as well, right? The baldies.
–They’ve won tag titles in WWE and IMPACT, yes.
Taichi: Well I’m sure we’ll tangle if they come close, and that’s pretty interesting.
ZSJ: They’re both big boys too, so it would be interesting, but I think with us as the champions- there haven’t been champions like us before, so I think we symbolize a new direction for the division while they represent the old.
–The idea of being exclusive tag teams instead of wrestlers who can go as single players as well.
ZSJ: We aren’t just satisfied with the tag championships, we want them to be as valuable as the singles championships, but we aren’t satisfied with just one. I want three championships by the end of the year.
I’m happy that fans now see the level that Taichi always had
–Even as COVID took hold, Zack stayed in Japan. Taichi, I’m sure you were very grateful for that decision.
Taichi: Of course, yeah. If Zack weren’t here we wouldn’t have gotten our shot at the tag titles, and if he hadn’t been here, things would have been completely different. Things are much better for him being here, and if I were in his position, I probably would have gone back home…
ZSJ: Haha! But I think you would have been successful even if I went back to England.
Taichi: (in English) Thank you.
–What are your thoughts on Taichi as a person?
ZSJ: Even though he’s my senior, he always treats me like a friend, and he’s very kind. I don’t want to destroy his image!
Taichi: Well, Zack’s lucky he gets the nice side of me. I’m strict with everyone else I know! But he used to hate me when we first met, in a different company…
–Ahh, in 2015, Zack was on the side of Pro-Wrestling NOAH as Suzuki-Gun invaded.
ZSJ: When we first met, he was almost like Naito, he wanted everyone to hate him. He enjoyed making my life difficult. But when I came to Suzuki-Gun that changed.
–Things got better between you two after Zack joined Suzuki-Gun in March 2017.
Taichi: I think when you look back at it, that antagonism we had was probably good for us. I’ve faced him in the past, so I know first hand just how good he is and what his strengths are. I definitely thought back then he was an incredible talent.
ZSJ: It’s an interesting experience to have battled Suzuki-Gun as part of a home team with them invading. You could always tell Taichi had so much potential, so I feel so happy that now fans can see the level that he always had. Every wrestler has an interesting story, and Taichi went from the AJPW to being Kawada’s assistant, and now to 2021 it’s quite the interesting progression.
–And Taichi, what do you think about Zack as an individual?
Taichi: To be honest, I wasn’t sure what to make of him at first. But we’re such completely different wrestlers that it’s helped us be successful. We each have what the other doesn’t. He does what I can’t and vice versa.
ZSJ: It’s instant chemistry, something you can’t force. I think we teamed one time in Korakuen before I challenged Okada for the (IWGP) title, and it was the first time to not be in a six or eight man with Suzuki-Gun, but it was effortless. It was instant chemistry, and we actually had to try hard not to be a good team, because we’re stylistically very different wrestlers. Our philosophies are somewhat similar; he was formed in the All Japan dojo, and my background is trying to keep the traditions and spirit of British wrestling while American wrestling has become popular. So we have a similar drive to keep tradition alive while being modern wrestlers.
–Your differences bring you together. Entrance music and ring gear, too.
Taichi: Haha, I suppose those are pretty different.
ZSJ: Taichi and I maybe on paper are very different people, but we just have a connection. When he gets down to the trunks it’s basically the same! Maybe I’ll get a pair of those tear away trousers, haha.
