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SEP.10.2020

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11 Questions with… Katsuyori Shibata

Katsuyori Shibata took on the best for years in NJPW, took on the challenge of leading the LA Dojo, and has successfully taken on the Japanese commentary role on NJPW STRONG. Can he take on 11 questions from NJPW fans?

 

From T’2

Say you being at 100% would mean you would come back to the ring tomorrow. What percentage would you say you are right now?

Shibata: Hmm, it’s a difficult thing to assign a percentage to, but training with the young guys, I’d say I’m in pretty good shape. I’m able to do a few things that I couldn’t do before my injury, for instance. 

From WaKikO

What would you say are the unique strengths of the LA and Noge Dojo trainees?

Shibata: Well, when I came up through the Noge system, it was more than 20 years ago, so my experience of it was different. Plus I left the company for a period as well. But to be honest, I’m not sure whether I agree with the way Noge has changed with the times.

–I see. 

Shibata: That said, when I brought the LA guys over for the G1 Climax tour last year, they were training together, and then on the last night when Uemura and Narita, and Karl and Clark were beating the hell out of each other, I really felt like that was the way Young Lions should be.

–It was a pretty hot situation.

Shibata: And that led to the Young Lion Cup, which was really themed around LA versus Noge. I haven’t been actively in the ring for a long time now, but it was a very real challenge for me, too, that tournament. I was more nervous about that than most of my own matches. I was really worried about how those matches would be received, how my guys were presenting themselves. In the end, Karl winning was a real seal of approval for the way I train my guys.

From Yasukura

What’s the one thing you try and keep in mind most when giving guidance to the LA Dojo wrestlers?

Shibata: It’s right here (beats chest). It’s spirit, it’s heart. We talk a lot about fighting spirit around here and that’s just what it’s all about. When I spoke to you guys before, about the old chestnut of ‘heart, technique, body’ and I said it should be ‘heart, body, technique’ in that order. That’s the order I keep in mind. 

From Tatsu no Kuma

What is the one thing you look for when recruiting people to the LA Dojo?

Shibata: I’d hate to repeat myself, but it’s heart. If you don’t do anything with feeling then you can’t do anything. It’s that simple. That’s what I will look for, to the point that the people left in the LA Dojo have gone through a tough process. They’ve been through that elimination process and they had the heart to stay.

From Hachi

I always see a lot of you in Gabe Kidd. How have you been instructing him while he’s been in Japan?

Shibata: You know, with Gabe, COVID meant he couldn’t go back to LA, but it actually worked out all in his favour. That’s what he said to me, ‘I’m a lucky boy; I get to train with you, I get to wrestle here, it all worked out’.

–How do you assess his progress?

Shibata: He’s very dedicated. When we can’t train together, he’ll seek out a place to train, to learn jiujitsu, or any other way he can to get those instincts to improve his position on the mat, to raise his grappling game. It’s important for these guys to know where they’re lacking and seek out ways to improve on their own. That he’s willing to do that, even away from home like he is, that shows he really wants this. He’s hungry, no doubt.

–Shibata-ism at play.

Shibata: Well, he’s the kind of guy I want to teach. There are guys that constantly need input, when you aren’t there they go off the rails, but Gabe isn’t like that.

–They get into bad habits, you mean?

Shibata: Right. Like, I’m not able to see what happens in the LA Dojo every day. But I have my little sources, the staff in LA sneaking a look at what goes on in there. I hear how Alex (Coughlin) is being really strict, with the new guys in the Dojo, and that’s encouraging. I think I’ve managed to train guys that can set a good example. 

From MT Saiko

What do you think about how the LA Dojo members have fared on NJPW STRONG?

Shibata: It’s been a relief to me. You know, a few months ago when Lion’s Break Collision was getting going, I was really worried about how Clark, Karl and Alex were doing. But you can see how they’ve gotten a lot bigger, and they’re very focused, not doing anything too flashy. And what really surprised me is they’ve taken stuff that I’ve worked on with them and refined it. 

— How so?

Shibata: Like, I had been working with Clark on his rope work. Running in a different direction to the other guy, thinking about the ring in terms of diagonals, like a diamond rather than a square. He’s taken that advice and incorporated that huge pounce into his moveset. The first time I saw that, I jumped out of my seat!

–They’ve really put in the work even without you there.

Shibata: Right! We’ll Facetime a lot and I’ll ask them if they’re keeping up with the training, but still, before the matches got going, I still wondered. Now I think everything that’s happening in the US is validation of what I’ve been doing these last couple of years. It’s been a real pleasure watching them wrestle. I can’t wait to get back over there and get back to working with them.

–Taking them to the next step?

Shibata: Well, I think they’re already on the next step. From here it’s about making that money.

From Ageta Mago

How have you been keeping in contact with LA from Japan?

Shibata: It’s mainly been Facetime and a group chat thing. One on one messages and calls as well. Clark told me he was thinking of a move and sent me a video, and I gave him advice and sent a video back. 

–And did that work?

Shibata: Not gonna lie, it wasn’t pretty at first. It’s gotten better and better, but I’ve told him not to use it in a match just yet. I want to work on it with him directly when I get back to the States first.

–So you do a fair bit of one on one training with Clark?

Shibata: Oh yeah, all th eboys. When I said Karl’s kicks sucked, he stopped doing them (laughs)

–That speaks to how much stock Karl puts in your feedback.

Shibata: Well, we’ve built that mutual respect. To get to that point, I did get pretty mad at times. Like to the point where I didn’t care if I got fired, heh. ‘If you won’t listen to what I have to tell you then I won’t teach you anything!’ That kinda thing. But that’s how we whittled those guys down to three that are all in with me and I’m all in with them.

From njstyle

Ren Narita has been in the LA Dojo for close to a year now. Your thoughts on imparting that Shibata-ism on him?

Shibata: To be honest when he first came out to LA, I wasn’t sure whether that was what he truly wanted or not. More than just going through the motions in training, I want someone who’s really in it and really wants it. We clash wills and we clash bodies in LA.

–And did that impression change when he came over?

Shibata: Narita has the endurance to handle everything they throw at you… in Japan. He and Uemura were definitely able to do all the LA drills when the Japan guys and LA guys were training together. But the first day he came and had the full on LA Dojo experience he just about threw up (laughs).

–A rude awakening?

Shibata: I wouldn’t say that. It was the stuff we do in LA every single day. But he was really driven to get through it, and he is really driven. He asked me to teach him kicks, so I went and got some mitts and kickpads when I was in Japan and brought them back to LA with me. He’s really dedicated to his kicks.

–So all in all, do you rate him?

Shibata: I think he’ll get there. I think it took time for him to adjust; he’s young and his mindset is different. I think in his own mind he felt he could do what he could do, and I’m looking for more than that. But when he came to me and asked me to work on his kicks, that was a good sign. He thought about what he wanted to do and what he needed to do and he took responsibility for himself. 

From Hyaku Naga

Who in NJPW interests you the most right now?

Shibata: Uemura.

–He told me once you taught him a move he used in one of his matches.

Shibata: The cross arm he used on Tiger Mask in February.

–He said he was really happy you taught him.

Shibata: Oh really? I’m glad, he doesn’t tend to express himself like that. See, when it comes to moves, the only thing I’ll teach you is the only thing I can teach, which is the fundamentals. Sleepers, arm bars, knee bars, Achilles holds, all those fundamental things that I learned.

–You want to pass that experience on.

Shibata: It’s a waste otherwise. You can really see how much heart Uemura puts into his matches. It’s in a different way to Narita, but there’s no mistake that those two are the future, and that’s the way it should be. But what’s important is knowing the pain, the true pain that comes with using these holds properly. If you don’t know that, everything you’re doing is phony and nobody can buy into it. That goes for a coach as well. If you learn a lie, well you’re only going to repeat that lie when you teach it. 

–So learning has to be a painful experience.

Shibata: Damn right. You know, I left NJPW for a while, but that gave me valuable experience that other people just don’t have in this company. I learned in MMA what it’s like to hurt people and what it’s like to get hurt on a different level. I can’t overstate how important that is. There’s the old saying of no pain no gain, and it’s true. Pain doesn’t lie, and if you take pain out of the equation, especially in this business, well everything becomes this flimsy facade.  

–Go on.

Shibata: In the old days in NJPW they used to do cement training right?

–Cement training was when trainees were just put in the ring to fight, focusing on the combat fundamentals without the window dressing of pro-wrestling.

Shibata: I don’t know whether anybody in Japan trains in that style anymore. I understand that as times change, there are some things that have to change with it, but throw it all away and it’s no good. You wind up with a bad photocopy of pro-wrestling, not pro-wrestling itself. It’s all about balance. 

— I see.

Shibata: To give you an example, one thing that every single place you go focuses on, every single school and dojo makes you do? Weight training. Now, muscle is important. But what’s important is the kind of muscle you get by moving, by being in the ring, the muscle you make and use in combat. Pro-wrestling and MMA require completely different conditioning, but you never know exactly what’s going to happen inside that ring, so you have to have the kind of body that can adapt to both worlds. So while my training does incorporate weights, there’s also grappling, wrestling, technique work, and all of that together is what makes a dojo. 

–You happened to be there for Uemura just as he was thinking about incorporating martial arts into his repertoire. The timing was perfect.

Shibata: Well, I really understand where he was coming from. A lot of guys go through what he was going through, myself included. You make your debut, and after that, what’s the next step? How best do you advance from there? There’s a lot of confusion at that point about what to learn from where.

–You went through the same thing.

Shibata: I did. That’s what made me quit (in 2005) to be honest (laughs). But everybody misread that, saying that I left pro-wrestling behind to go into MMA. I didn’t. Maybe NJPW diehards might think that, but I didn’t go straight from NJPW to MMA. I did a year freelance, I tagged with KENTA. That’s what brought him into NJPW in the end. I wouldn’t trade any of my experiences for the world.

–All’s well that ends well.

Shibata: In all honesty, NJPW really didn’t think well of me at all. That’s why I was bound to collide with Tanahashi when I came back in, and I welcomed that. Without him there might not be a NJPW today, and he definitely chose a rough path and stuck through it. So did I! I made my own tough decisions, but I wasn’t in a position to say that of course (laughs). But yeah, all’s well that ends well. He helped make NJPW what it is today, and my own experiences helped me get to the spot where I am now, training the LA Dojo guys, helping Narita and Uemura and helping shape the future of this company.

From Kenken

What’s your relationship with Tanahashi like now? 

Shibata: Doing commentary on NJPW STRONG with him is a lot of fun (laughs). We’re good friends now. When I had my injury, he came to visit me in the hospital, and I think that was the start of our relationship being stronger.

–What sort of thing do you talk about?

Shibata: Oh you know, the future of wrestling, the younger wrestlers, things like that. He looks at what those kids are doing very closely as well. We have very different opinions, but we both see talent in our own ways, and we both agree that Narita and Uemura have a bright future. 

–I bet some of your wrestling talk gets fairly heated.

Shibata: Absolutely! You know, but for both of us, the wrestling world has changed a lot since we were coming up, and I have my own filter when it comes to watching from an LA Dojo perspective. We both have different ideas and viewpoints, but we both really love this business and that comes through when we talk. You know, it reminds me. When I did my tryout, and it was me, (Wataru) Inoue, Tanahashi and some other kids there, Riki Choshu asked us one by one ‘why do you want to be a pro-wrestler?’.

–And what did you say?

Shibata: I said ‘because I love wrestling!’. He said ‘just because you love it don’t mean you can do it’. I understand that now, but the reverse is true. You can’t do it if you don’t love it.

–That’s a good point. 

Shibata: If you don’t love this, then you won’t have the motivation you need to do it. Look, every single person in this business is crazy, absolutely nuts. (laughs) Putting your life on the line out of a desire for self expression is something I think only we truly understand. That’s why we’re able to show you what a dream come true looks like, every single night. 

From Maido Shimamama Ja!

Who would you say is or was your greatest rival?

Shibata: I don’t have an answer off the top of my head, but I think when I came back to NJPW and wrestled Tanahashi, that was special. You had us in very different circumstances, the guy who left versus the guy who stayed and completely different ideologies. I was being interviewed at the time, and I was trying to put my finger on what that connection was. The interviewer said ‘it looks like a rivalry to me’ and it was a case of ‘oh, so that’s what this is like’.

–You’re weren’t so sure?

Shibata: I mean, you think of Tanahashi and Nakamura as the definition of a rivalry. Put me in that mix and it isn’t the same; they did more for longer in NJPW, so it doesn’t feel right to say they’re my rivals. But if people want to look at it that way, that’s fine.

–You don’t give yourself that same rival status against Tanahashi?

Shibata: I dunno. Really I just did what was in front of me and what I felt I had to do at the time, I didn’t really think about all the external factors. Of course, had I not left, Tanahashi wouldn’t have stayed with the same resolve, and he wouldn’t have hated me so much when I came back. So I helped make him who he is (laughs).

–Which is a good friend to you right now, incidentally.

Shibata: Heh. Well, we all love this company in our own ways. You look at Shinsuke Nakamura, he loved and still loves NJPW. There’s no way he would use the words ‘Strong Style’ in connection to himself otherwise. To be honest, I’ve often thought about just what the heck Strong Style really means; I would never use the words myself. But we all express our ideas about NJPW in our own ways.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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