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FEB.24.2021

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Tough Teaching: Katsuyori Shibata interviewed (2/2)

More from the LA Dojo coach

 

Katsuyori Shibata is never anything less than brutally honest, as a coach and as a commentator. In the second part of our exclusive interview, the LA Dojo coach gives his thoughts on the roster, with some big insights into the future of NJPW STRONG.

Check out part one!

Clark Connors isn’t a Young Lion

 

–Last time we talked a lot about the LA Dojo newcomers, the DKC and Kevin Knight. But you spent a considerable amount of 2020 working with Gabriel Kidd in Japan. 

Shibata: I worked a lot with Gabe during lockdown. He’d ask how to use this or that in his matches, and I’d basically be telling him ‘well, if it were me, I’d do this’. After that, he’d come to me after every match, and ask for what I thought, or a bit of advice. He’s been really dedicated all the way.

–How do you feel he’s come along over the last year?

Shibata: Before I went back to LA, I thought that Gabe had progressed the most, but when I was over there was when I saw for myself how far Clark (Connors) has come along. Then again, Clark isn’t a Young Lion anymore.

–He isn’t?

Shibata: Really, he graduated the second he won Lion’s Break Crown. He just has to take that next step now. It’s all about timing. 

–How did you feel about his performance in Lion’s Break Crown?

Shibata: I think it was really all or nothing for him. It was an exciting tournament, but then I always watch his matches with a little bit of nervousness. 

–That tournament saw Clark really start to use that pounce of his. 

Shibata: I love that move. We drill running on the diagonal and in different directions, to accelerate from any angle, but he took that teaching and applied it to land that pounce and the spear so perfectly. He took what I taught and made it his.

–So he’s no longer a Young Lion? We can say that he’s graduated?

Shibata: Yeah, I’d say so. He still trains with everyone when he can. But now we have the second class in the Dojo house, so we had a little graduation ceremony and Clark moved out. 

Uemura has the most important thing for a Young Lion to have

 

–Speaking of graduates, Karl Fredericks is currently rehabbing from injury; have you had much contact with him of late?

Shibata: He’s recovered now and we’re working together. Last time we talked I mentioned that he needed work on his kicks and I was asking for a sandbag. Pres. Ohbari saw my comments and got one for us right away. That was really great to see. The Japanese side is looking after the LA Dojo properly. 

–So you can finally work with a sandbag.

Shibata: It’s great, it’s really increased what we can do at the Dojo. It’ll be great for Karl, and DKC. Narita as well.

–You mentioned last time that Alex Coughlin was working with kevin Knight while he was recovering from his neck injury. 

Shibata: Alex is good to go as well. He’s been training extra hard; when you see him back, you’ll notice his neck is about twice as wide as it used to be (laughs). Clark used to be the captain of the Dojo, but now that he’s graduated, I think Alex is the new captain. He’s been doing great. I was worried at first, but I think he’s grown into the responsibility of having juniors underneath him. I was the same way.

–We’ve spoken before about you working with Yuya Uemura a little while you’ve been in Japan. What have you been doing with him?

Shibata: I worked a lot with him and Gabe in the first half of last year. If he can take anything we’ve done and use that to his advantage, then that would be great. I saw him wrestle recently and thought his rope work was a little off so I gave him some pointers on how he should run, with a more forward posture. Stuff like that.

–What do you think of his progress?

Shibata: He has the most important thing you want from a Young Lion. Plus he has that competitive spirit, and good facial expressions. He fights with a lot of emotion, and a lot of conviction, so you’re naturally invested in his matches. He’s becoming a great pure wrestler.

–He was a last minute entrant into Best of the Super Jr. last year, how do you think he did?

Shibata: I think he did great. Matches might not go his way, he might still have a tough time of things, but that’s all experience. He just needs the reps, that’s all.

I want Narita to explode. He won’t go back until then

 

–Let’s talk about another new member of the LA Dojo, Ren Narita.

Shibata: The first thing I really wanted Narita to understand is not to force pro-wrestling into a formula. It has to start with feeling, and the feeling has to be pain. It’s literally like the old cliche, no pain no gain. You have to understand how much a move can hurt before you understand how to use it. He asked me to work on kicks with him, so I went ‘OK’, and he could barely stand for a week afterward.

–That’s… pretty harsh. 

Shibata: I don’t produce posers. Nothing is half assed, whether that’s a kick, a headlock, an armbar, a sleeper. That’s what I was brought here to teach, and that’s what he has to deal with.

–I see.

Shibata: Everything that he’s learned and gone through in Japan, that’s all been important to him. But his problem is that he’s still in that Young Lion conditioning of worrying about his seniors, how they’ll feel and how they’ll react. That’s second nature to him right now, and we have to correct that first. I think it’s a bit of a shame he hasn’t been able to wrestle his contemporaries as often as Gabe did with Tsuji and Uemura, all the way through the G1 like they did. That time is the one thing I think he’s really been lacking. 

–He missed out on that Young Lion rivalry you think?

Shibata: Well, I think that period can really make, or break, someone. It doesn’t necessarily follow that guys get good results and progress smoothly, but that ongoing struggle is a fact of life in this business. In the end, I think Narita was one of the better guys in that (Japanese) system, but from the moment he came into the LA Dojo, I’ve broken him right down to build him back up. That’s been hard, really hard for him. But it’s a good thing. You meet that wall, you beat your head into it, and you learn. Going through those trials is important. ‘The only way not to get lost, is to stay lost’. For him, what he really needs to do is to be able to explode. 

–He was relatively emotionless as a Young Lion. You really want to see that emotion, that heat from him.

Shibata: He isn’t going back until that changes. At the end of the day, if he goes back and he hasn’t changed anything about himself, then there was really no point in him coming to me in the first place. So he’s been treated really strictly. My reputation is at stake here as well. Ideally he’d be wrestling every night, but with COVID, it’s hard to sort out indie bookings. 

–You want him to put your teaching into practice.

Shibata: Absolutely. One of the places where the business has changed is that every match is even more important than it has been. People are watching you even while you’re on excursion, it isn’t like you disappear. Nobody can slack off. And with the training environment here getting better and better it’s a great opportunity I think, this new way of doing foreign excursions. Narita’s getting to learn stuff from Fred Rosser, the works.

–You’ve been gaining a reputation on the Japanese STRONG broadcasts for some ‘salty’ commentary.

Shibata: Ahh, that’s just (play by play announcer Shigeki) Kiyono and Tanahashi playing that up, right? (laughs). I’ve done colour commentary in venues in Japan before, but this is a different environment. Then there’s people in the crowd, people in the broadcast area. With STRONG, you have to strip things right back. Otherwise, people watching for the first time don’t know what’s going on. Most of the people watching STRONG are the real hardcores, the wrestling nerds, right?

 

–See, there you’re getting salty…

Shibata: But that’s the thing; with STRONG we’re recording the commentary in a studio. I’m just sitting in front of the monitor and saying the first thing that comes in my head. 

–No filter, just what springs to mind. 

Shibata: It doesn’t matter if one of us has a little bit of fun (laughs). It’d be a different story if this was going out on broadcast TV every week, it’s a different environment. It’s very natural, very comfortable. If people complain then too bad. But to change the subject a little, the American wrestlers on STRONG definitely want to know what we’re saying on Japanese commentary (laughs). 

–Uh-oh. 

Shibata: When I went over there, Jordan (Clearwater) came up to me with ring gear in hand, like ‘which should I wear?’ (laughs). He says he goes out of his way to get the Japanese commentary translated to he knows what I’m saying about him… Wait, this is going out in English, too, right? (laughs).

 

We’ve been thinking a lot about what we can do with COVID

 

–We went through a lot in 2020. What was your big takedown of our year with COVID-19?

Shibata: It was a tough year, absolutely. It’s still tough. We’ve all been thinking a lot about what we can do with COVID, how we can deal with it, from the first State of Emergency where none of us really left the house. We’ve all learned a lot about what we can do and what we can’t in this environment. 

–You’re right.

Shibata: You know, I think those full house days will be back eventually, but we have to do what we need to for now. It’s a terrible disease, but in the grand universal sense, the big picture, it’s as if this planet has come down with a bug and is working to get over it. 

–How have the younger wrestlers adapted to learning even in this environment?

Shibata: I think it’s been a growth opportunity. It’s helped teach everyone that something like this can happen and it isn’t going to completely stop you, there’s stuff you can do, and they’re doing it, and it’s providing them with something useful for the future. 

–Has COVID affected your teaching philosophy in any way?

Shibata: Not at all (laughs). I’ve always said, you put heart first and it pays off. Without that heart, that spirit, you won’t survive, and that’s the case with this situation too. With Alex leading Jet (Kevin Knight) and DKC, they’re getting more spirited by the day! 

I really want my guys in a Japanese ring

 

–I did want to ask you about the suit you’re wearing…

Shibata: This is actually the LA Dojo formal uniform. Back in my dad’s day (former wrestler and referee Katsuhisa Shibata) if you saw photos of the boys travelling, they’d always be in these smart jackets and I sued to think that was super cool. I know times have changed and it isn’t done anywhere else, but I think that’s what makes it important to me. 

–A respect for the past.

Shibata: I’ve told everybody in the LA Dojo, I don’t want to see any sloppiness when they’re on the road. Fact is you’re a professional, and people are looking at you to present a professional attitude. I take my eye off those guys for a second and they’re looking ridiculous (laughs). Half of Clark’s clothes are torn, and at the start, Alex was fixing to get on the airplane wearing the shorts and T-shirt he got given. Everyone’s different and I’m not about taking away people’s individuality, but I think they have to remember they’re representing NJPW. So I got together these suits, and explained to them that you’re professional wrestlers on a global stage, and if you’re flying somewhere or on the train, you need to get ready and look the part. 

–Thanks so much for all your time. As we wrap up, what goals do you have in mind for 2021?

Shibata: I want the 7 guys in the LA Dojo to really step up this year. Don’t just do as they’ve been taught, but pursue their own vision of pro-wrestling, make it their own. 

–I see. 

Shibata: But I think there’s no worries there. They’ll keep getting better and better. Gabe is pretty much on that border of graduating, and I want to send Clark to Japan ASAP. 

–That would be exciting. 

Shibata: It’d be really exciting to have my LA guys in a Japanese ring. That’s why I want Jet and DKC to hurry up and progress as well. I want us to be able to have LA Dojo vs Hontai, or LA Dojo vs BULLET CLUB. If we can get on that level, that’d be awesome.

–For LA Dojo to be a faction in its own right. 

Shibata: I’m not saying it’ll definitely happen, but it would make for a whole bunch of possibilities. I like rivalry, you know. Like a couple of years ago at the end of the G1 when the Noge and the LA Dojos collided. That’s pro-wrestling to me. That day, looking at the ring, I thought ‘the future of this business is right there in front of me’. So that’s what I’m working toward. That’s it! 

 

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