Second part of our in depth conversation with the number one contender
Shingo Takagi is counting down to the fourth and biggest match against rival Will Ospreay to date, as he challenges for the IWGP World heavyweight Championship for the first time. In the second part of this interview, Shingo continues his reflections on New Japan Cup 2021, including with his Fukuoka opponent May 4.
Interview conducted before April 4
He can wrestle beautifully, but he chooses to get ugly instead
–Let’s continue our look back at your New Japan Cup campaign. In the semifinals, you faced EVIL. It seemed like you were extra motivated to take on your former Los Ingobernables De Japon teammate.
Takagi: When we were in LIJ together, even though we were NEVER 6-Man Tag team Champions at one point, I don’t think during 2019 he was getting the results he wanted to. I sensed a lot of frustration from him, that he was under some pressure.
–Tetsuya Naito made those comments, that he was the fourth heavyweight in LIJ.
Takagi: When we’d talk back then, I said ‘hey, if you’re pissed off, it doesn’t matter that I’m your teammate. Let’s get in there against one another and tear it up’. In the end, he chose the route that he did instead, and threw everything he had away, but I thought that there was still that competitive part of him that I wanted to bring out.
–With your similar styles, and his history in LIJ, there were a few commentators saying that there was jealousy from EVIL toward you. Did you get that impression at all?
Takagi: I think with our styles, me coming into LIJ would have affected him the most. It was kinda only natural that the two of us get compared. Here’s the thing; this was the first time we tied up one on one, and honestly I was left thinking ‘this guy can go’. He can wrestle beautifully, even though he chooses to get real ugly instead.
–He cheats, but there’s a reasoning to what he does.
Takagi: Right. He’s smart. He doesn’t fight fair at all, but there’s an art to what he does. There’s a lot of guys who go the same route as him, but aren’t nearly as good at it. he can do it with a timing and precision that makes him really tough.
–I see.
Takagi: If you try and take him on head on, he’ll see where you’re coming from and take over. My approach was to take and take, and then go on the offense in the end. By the end of that match it did become straight ahead one on one; he was fighting on my level.
–That was the main event on March 20 at Xebio Arena. There had been a major earthquake earlier in the evening.
Takagi: that definitely threw me off as I was getting ready. I wasn’t sure whether we’d get to restart or not, talking to the staff, and whatnot. I was in the locker room when it happened, and after I felt the shake, I went toward the arena to see what was up. The only thing i could think was about that big screen hanging above the ring, and how I’d be doomed if I was having a match and it fell. Pretty self serving thought to have, heheh.
–Xebio Arena was built after the big earthquake that struck the area in 2011, so it’s incredibly safe and resistant to quakes.
Takagi: In the end, as soon as I heard we were restarting, I started focusing on the match. There were probably a few fans that felt unsafe and wanting to go home early, so being in the main event, I thought I had to make them all forget about the earthquake.
I thought he seemed lost.
–Then the next day, it was the final with Will Ospreay. This is quickly becoming quite the rivalry as far as fans are concerned; was it a special match for you?
Takagi: I thought it was cool how it all came together that naturally. When we first faced off in the Best of the Super Jr. final, he surprised me with how good he was. And him being 25, 26 at the time, I was left thinking that he’d only get better from there. On the other side, me approaching 40, that’s a tough pill to swallow, him being around. When you think about how guys usually really hit their stride in their 30s, I don’t think I’m a match for how he’ll grow to become. But that’s the depth of pro-wrestling. He’s become a yardstick for me in many respects. That’s what I saw in that BoSJ final, even though our styles are so distinct.
–And then you faced off for the third time in that cup final.
Takagi: The thing I’ve noticed with him recently is that he seems lost. He has that tough guy act, he’s fighting alone but then he has people out there with him; he doesn’t seem quite himself. I thought that maybe I could set him straight with a great one on one match that had the crowd really invested, even if they were only clapping their hands and stamping their feet.
–Bringing that sword to the ring was quite the message.
Takagi: Two years ago, in Okayama when that BoSJ final was set, he got on the microphone and talked about loving the junior heavyweight division, and loving New Japan Pro-Wrestling. That wasn’t my line to say, I’d only been in the company for eight months at that point, right? But I firmly believe Japan has the best pro-wrestling in the world, and I wanted to represent the Japanese spirit and what japanese wrestling as in that match. Then out comes Ospreay with a damn Japanese katana! It should have been me! I have a practice katana at home, actually.
–So to see Ospreay have that sword must have irked you.
Takagi: I had that sword with me in the car all the way through the loop in case I would be facing Ospreay in the final. If it was Finlay, I wouldn’t have used it, I don’t think.
–A receipt.
Takagi: More, ‘this is what the real thing looks like!’ When Ospreay and Zack Sabre Jr.) faced each other in the second round, that was a great, great match, but the story was ‘who’s the best British wrestler?’, and I wanted to say ‘hey, this is the New JAPAN Cup, I’m the best Japanese wrestler, and I wanted to represent Japan in that final.
I don’t know it’s possible for Ibushi to be uncool
–It was a wild final with Ospreay.
Takagi: I felt in the match though, and watching it back actually, that he had full control.
–You were in Ospreay’s world so to speak.
Takagi: Yeah. I think I was trying too hard to charge him head on, and I paid for that. Plus, and I’m not trying to make excuses, but I was pretty hurt from the night before with EVIL. Especially that superplex, when I bounced on the mat. My back was a mess. I don’t normally like to tape myself up, but the trainers told me it would make things a little easier, and I went for that. Then I took that suplex onto the guardrail; hurt like hell.
–You wince just looking at a move like that.
Takagi: I’ve had a history of back issues. But even so, having your backbone hit steel like that, I honestly thought for a second I’d broken my back. And only a day after EVIL suplexed my coccyx right onto a damn steel chair. Hurting my lower back really takes away a lot of my power moves, so it was really a case of making do with what I could manage physically when it came to my offense.
–You seemed to be encouraged by Kota Ibushi sitting ringside during that match.
Takagi: United Empire all came out together, they seconded Ospreay in that match, and I was by myself. Naito and I had that conversation beforehand, but I decided in the end, this is my fight, and it’s a tournament situation as well; I thought I should be out there alone. But it just so happened Ibushi was sitting right there while I was in all that pain, heh. i don’t know what he was thinking in the moment, but I really felt I wanted to stand opposite him, wanted that shot, and wanted him to take a good look. In the end I think I was out there in front of him two or three times.
–Ibushi’s an important figure to you.
Takagi: Yeah. He really helped me pull through in that match. Us being the same age is a big part of that, and I just think it’s impossible for Ibushi to be uncool.
I was even more pumped up than usual
–One of the stand out moments from the final was when you took those blows from Ospreay and zombie walked through them into the corner.
Takagi: That’s not the sort of thing I tend to do. It was frustration, anger. Not toward Ospreay so much as myself. He was throwing all that offense at me that I had no answer to, and I just wanted to strike back. That moment, it wasn’t really firing up, I’m always fired up. I was even more pumped up than usual. Like Super Saiyajin Takagi (laughs).
–Then you managed to bust out a Poison Rana…
Takagi: I’ll be honest, I’d never done that move before. Never practiced it.
–No way? A move that difficult?
Takagi: I had a mental image of it in my head though. I think it goes back to what oi would want to see as a fan, right? Wouldn’t it be wild if Shingo did a Poison Rana? But then, Ospreay was doing crazier stuff still. I thought I had him with a Pumping Bomber twice but once he turned it into a Spanish Fly and the other time, I thought I hit him and somehow he flipped out of it. I was thinking ‘huh? Where did he disappear to?’ and then all of a sudden, OsCutter, heh.
–GIFs of that sequence went viral pretty quickly.
Takagi: It’s not easy to say this, but I was wiped out in that match. But I don’t feel that it anywhere near finished me, or my hopes for that title. It might have a different name and a different design now, but the IWGP World Heavyweight Champion is still the absolute pinnacle of what we do, and it’s what we’re all here for.
–How did you feel about the title unification?
Takagi: Well, I never held either title. But eras change. Heisei became Reiwa, times changed and we change with them. The fans might think what they think, and I know a lot of people were very attached to the old titles, but in the end, like I said, if it says IWGP in the name, that’s what I want.
That match made me realise just how good Tanahashi is
–As we get to the end here, I wanted us to reflect on the January 30 match you had with Hiroshi Tanahashi in Nagoya a little. You really stirred up a lot of interest going into that match with your comments, and then the match itself really delivered.
Takagi: I lost, but it was one of those losses that really meant something. Going into that match I really wanted to wrestle ‘the’ Hiroshi Tanahashi, the guy that really carried the Japanese wrestling world on his back all those years. I think recently he hadn’t been showing that side of him in the ring all that often, and that’s what I wanted to bring out of him. I really did, and that match really made me realise how good Tanahashi still is.
–Both in the ring and out.
Takagi: If it was Hirooki Goto in there, I would have a sense of ‘if I do this, he’ll do this’. But with Tanahashi it was constantly surprising. It was fun to really discover what direction he’d take things.
–A big focal point was Tanahashi talking about the NEVER title being a means rather than the end, and his attitude toward the title itself.
Takagi: I think there were a lot of key points to the whole build to that match. January 18 in Korakuen, it was a very small house with the Tokyo state of emergency, and Tanahashi was fighting tears as he was talking about remembering that scene. Then the next night I turned the direction around 180 degrees when I had the mic. Then there was that draw on January 25 and us sitting down to chat.
–Tanahashi showing you some love.
Takagi: See, that was unexpected (laughs). In the end, whether you see that match, and everything surrounding it as a Takagi match or a Tanahashi match depends on how you look at it, but it was an important match, and it was really meaningful.
–With that match and then the New Japan Cup, you were really a focal point in Q1 of 2021.
Takagi: I mean, I started the year as a champion walking out into the Tokyo Dome as well. That’s a real dream come true situation. So yeah, it’s been a good start to the year, and I’ve kept that motivation high.
–But going forward, I’m sure you want to not just have great matches, but results to go along with them.
Takagi: Absolutely. I’m 39 this year, and now it’s to the point where I know I can’t leave things undone. But it’s all about those three key points; heart, body, technique. I’m keeping all three where they need to be and I’m definitely as motivated as ever.
–The New Japan Cup wasn’t yours to win but you were the real star of the show.
Takagi: ah, I don’t know about that. It’s like the cherry blossoms at this time of year. They bloom, everyone gets excited about how pretty they look, and then they fall. But they’ll always be back again. That’s pro-wrestling for you.
–Well put.
Takagi: I might be the only one that thinks wrestling’s like cherry blossoms (laughs). I just compare everything to the business (laughs).
